Possibility Warrior

Lighting The Way Forward

9 Comments

  1. I’m an ENTP and youngest brother is an ESTP. I’ve realized over the years that the biggest difference between us is our first function. Ne vs Se. There isn’t that much difference on the surface, since naturally we’re both extraverted perceivers, have the same aux Ti function, and Fe as the tertiary.

    But he sees the world “real time,” exactly as it is and tries 100% to use it to the fullest. He might not come up with a concept but once he gets one that shows promise, he’s like a ferarri, and good luck to anyone who wants to stop him. In some ways you can equate Se to sheer, unadulterated willpower.

    Se = I want that and I’m going to get it.

    At least for me, I don’t necessarily see the world as being concrete or “fixed.” It’s more like an elaborate movie set where you can bend the rules to make the movie you want – edit this detail out, put this prop in, hire this actor, and add these special effect to get the end result you want.

    You start making the movie and you think “oh, we can hire Tom Cruise and it will turn out really good.”

    “But Wesley,” your accountant says, ” Tom Cruise is going to demand 20 million in salary and 5% of the gross, and our total budget is 10 million.”

    “I don’t care, find a way! Tell him he can win an award at the Sundance Film Festival which will higher is street cred and make him relevant again to critics.”

    That’s Ne. Endless possibilities and then possibilities on the possibilities you just came up with. Some of them are brilliant and some are stupid. But if you throw enough spaghetti on the wall, something will stick…

    • Wow, Wesley! That’s a really great description of the similarities and differences between Se and Ne – which can be difficult to distinguish at first. Thank you for sharing! And I have to say, your poor, poor mother! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  2. Wesley, I’d be interested in getting your feedback on the differences I see in Ne and Se.

    While both are adventurers and explorers, for Se the aim is the thrill and risk of the sensations and experience itself. The draw for Ne is more about the possibilities that such experiences are likely to open up — new places, people, events, endeavors.

    I think that an Ne would be far more likely to adapt for lengths of time to a calm and sedate environment if there was an interesting potential involved — say an entertaining conversation with a calm but intelligent conversant. The Se on the other hand would likely get ancy sitting with discussion too long and would be the first to advocate for action or diversion of some kind to accompany or replace the talk.

    What do you think? Do you have any stories along these lines with you and your brother?

    Thanks! ~Julie =)

  3. Ne vs Se

    Extroverted sensing (Se) is real time. To me, it’s the purest function out there because it is taking the world as it is. Not how they want it to be, not how it used to be and now how it could be – just how it is. It gives a dominant extroverted sensor, in some respects, an advantage over others because they taking in life exactly how it is. Now, obviously, later they need to make a judgement about it with their auxiliary judging function, either Fi or Ti, but at first they are just taking in an unfiltered view of the world. Kinda amazing when you think about it. Now it some ways it makes them seem less intelligent b/c they’re not making the connections like some other functions are. They’re prone to making really dumb mistakes over and over again. But, dominate extroverted sensors enjoy life to the fullest more than any other group. I can say that with a fact. That’s why everyone likes to be around them. They embody life and it’s contagious. They can also get away with a lot of things no other group can. An ESFP and ESTP male will naturally be very good with women from an early age. My brother ESTP and dad ESTP both have natural charisma because they are a) dealing with their real time surroundings b) never overthink the situation and c) are fun to be around. They also go after exactly what they want, again, without overthinking the situation like other functions tend to do. My mom is an ISTJ and I asked her once how she feel for my dad who is so unlike her. Answer: humor and dog-hearted persistence. If you want to annoy an SE dom, just analyze a situation more than a couple minutes. They will get extremely bored. They are taking in information “real time,” and responding accordingly in real time. When they get mad, they lash out – then it’s over. When they’re happy, you can see it. But they don’t even spend a lot of time dwelling on past happy experiences or comparing a currently observation with a past one, like Introverted Sensing. In fact, if you ask my brother or dad about something that happened last week, they can barely tell you what happened, good or bad. It will be more general, with a lot of details missing. Again, this is dominate extroverted sensing, so it will be a little difference if it’s further down the chain in the function order. Both me and my brother own our own business but he is far more successful than me. He can stick with things better. Se isn’t a flaky as people think. Once it does hone onto something, you’ll find that it goes after it anyway possible until it achieves it. Pure force. A dominant extroverted sensor will say and do anything he/she can do achieve the desired results he/she wants now.

    Extroverted intuition (Ne) looks the same at first because it’s an extroverted perceiving function. But an dominate Ne is always looking for the unseen and hidden possibilities. I’m trying to stay away from saying “plotting,” because that would be more to do with the second Ti function. Ne is scanning the environment for what is not readily apparent. What something could be? What has been forgotten. Which is why you can’t really talk about Ne without Si. As much as dominate Ne users have trouble with dominate Si users, they use a lot of that function themselves, but to different ends. In fact, you could argue that ENTPs and ENFPs start with Si. Their introverted sensing tells them how things used to be. It stores past knowledge. It files a million facts away (versus dominate Si users who I find store pertinent data away and access it really well). Then extroverted intuition comes in and makes all sorts of connections with this stored data. It never goes A, B, C, D, E, ect. It says if A is like B then Q is like U. Lots of filing in the gaps based on Si. Now, ENTPs and ENFPs do something entirely different with that data, and again, that’s getting into the secondary functions. But Ne is always making associations with past data their Si has already compiled. Ne doms do not see the world real time like Se doms. They appear to but rely on a lot of past data collected and when in the present, make correlations to what they’re seeing now versus what they’re already seen, and then coming up with these “ah ha moments.” End result = it’s very hard for Ne doms to live in the present. Very little is real time like Se doms. Because their Ne + Si is working so fast with one another, people think that, but that can be further from the case in my experience. ENTPs are known to be charismatic too though not as well as ESTPs. Not even close if you ask me. But their charisma comes from their tertiary Fe more than anything. Everyone says the Ne is about possibilities but there is more to it because they are generating these possibilities from their Si. Also, Ne +Si bends the world, as much as they can, to how they want it. It’s not concerned with how the world is (Se), but how it could be. But unlike NFs, not so much who it should be from a moral sense. They want to push ideas to the limits to see what will happen. You can liken Ne to a kid to touches a stove to see what will happen. The best example of Ne in action in a move is The Joker, in the Dark Knight. Though he killed people, it wasn’t to any real ends. He didn’t even want to kill Batman. It was all a game. The Joker never kills Batman when he gets a chance, even in the comics, because then the game would end.

    I don’t know if any of this makes sense or sounds like a ramble, but hopefully it someone answered your question.

    Se = pure force, realistic, let’s do it, action, fun, in the moment, live life to the fullest but as it is
    Ne= what’s missing, inventive, do things to see what happens, future oriented based off past data

    Again to get the complete profile, you have to see how all the functions play together. Ne + Ti is totally different than Ne + Fi. Se + Ti is totally different han Se + Fi. The secondary judging function has major implications to what Se doms and Ne do with that data, and I think it’s the Ti + Si that makes ENTPs really live in “la la land,” not really the Ne.

    • Thank you Wesley, very insightful!

      I agree about Se and I think it is an ancient function along with Si. I think the Se and Ne dominant types are both very lively and vivacious, attracting and entertaining people, and finding ways to get out of any scrape. A solid external perception is a good aid for bending the world to your liking. And both can stick with things when guided by their judging functions. It’s a matter of finding an idea (Ti) or cause (Fi) worth pursuing with focus.

      I agree, the inferior plays a large role in the activity of the dominant. For me, my inferior Se is constantly gathering real time data, but my dominant Ni gets to decide what’s important. Pole I’m about to walk into? Far less important than the fact that there’s a light on in that window which means A, which implies B, which confirms my suspicions about C, which… Wham!

      Si is cautiously conditioned by the past, and Ne takes advantage of this knowledge when it comes to impulsive action. Ne is not really as risk-taking as it appears to others, since it’s so modulated by past experience. Of course, that experiences comes of taking a lot of risks in youth that the other types might be less prone to engage!

      I’d say ESTP and ENTP are charismatic in different ways. If you want a nation to march into battle, leave it to the ESTP to rally the battle cry. If there’s no battle to march into, leave it to the ENTP to contrive one! ๐Ÿ˜‰

      Did/do you and your brother get along when it comes to Ne/Se? I can see you toying with him quite a bit just for fun, until he figures it out and leaves you in the dust. It’s too bad you’re not in business together — now that would be a team!

      ~Julie =)

      • Exactly, you more or less hit it on the nail. I’m still doing research of Introverted Intuition (Ni). I’ve been studying everything related to Jung and typology since 09′ and this is the only function I struggle explaining. I know it when I see it and can sense it by what someone says but it’s still kinda a mystery to me. You all must use your inferior Se to compile real time data and then your Ni throws out what’s not necessary. In some ways it doesn’t seem as creative as Ne but maybe it is however because it’s internal, nobody sees it. Ni and Ne are both future oriented but Ni plans it better. Although, Ni dom and aux do also tend to be way more serious about life so maybe that’s why.

        Back to Se…when you are in a live and die situation, you want a friend with extroverted sensing. They will keep you alive. I gotta believe that in the early stages of mankind, most people had Se. Then as time when by, Si was the next perceptive function to develop. I think Ne and Ni came way latter (again, no way to prove this but it would make sense).

        I also have to believe that most of your athletes have extroverted sensing. Every professional NBA, NFL, MBL and NHL must have Se in as their dominate or auxiliary function. I’m sure you’ll catch non-artisans at the high school at collegiate level but most pros have to have that real time awareness to succeed at that level.

        Ne is an engine of chaos. Thank goodness they only represent 3.2% of the population and maybe that’s too much :p Left to its own devices, there really isn’t any rhyme or reason to it. It just wants to see “what would happen if….” I love it (obviously) but even I can’t control it at times. My Ti tries to reign it in as much as possible and then my Si tells me “remember when you did that the last time,” but it’s no freaking use lol

        And yes, me and him get along well. My other brother is an ISFP and that’s interesting. But Ne and Se get along for the most part. I used to mentally torture the hell out of him when he was younger until he got bigger and taller than me and could kick my a**. But to this day he tells me that he’s smarter than he would have been because of me. I used to tell him he was just an “average kid” with “average capability” and taught him how to think 4th-dimensional-y so I think his intuition is artificially higher than it naturally would be. And he tells me that “you think about the moon and the stars but can’t see what’s right in front of you.” I guess you can’t have your cake and eat it two.

        • Yes, in a physical life or death situation, it would be good to have an ESTP or ISTP around! I’d agree, the best athletes would likely have high Se. And I agree with your ordering of origination of the functions. I also agree that dominant Ne is chaos! I’ve never seen anything else like it – exhausting! ๐Ÿ˜‰

          Ne is creative in that it realizes/originates potential from the material it finds in the world. It’s divergent, going out in all directions from the individual, making things appear that weren’t there before.

          Ni is the opposite — it takes everything in and synthesizes it into a whole. All that is perceived by Ne and Se is brought into a single vision. Even if there are holes in the vision, you can still see the bigger picture — this is why Ni can seem prophetic and psychic.

          Ni spends a lot of time internally reflecting to accomplish all that, which is why it comes across reserved and serious. But we do usually have a good sense of humor if we’re brought outside of our reveries. =) It can be especially tiring for an Ni to keep up with an Ne who is constantly creating new information faster than the Ni can synthesize it!

          My practice is based on the idea that you can learn to understand, develop, and become fluent in all 8 functions, regardless of type. Type influences how you go about developing them and the order in which it’s best to use them for any given purpose.

          Your brother likely helped you become more aware of the physical moment the way you helped him increase his intuitive perception. That’s saying a whole lot because the dominant for each of you is the other’s lowest of the 8!

          Wow, and an ISFP brother! Your family is a case study! =) Did he withdraw from the schemes and non-stop ExTP action? Or did he join in with his auxiliary Se and try to gently guide you to stay on the trail with his dominant Fi?

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